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FOIA: [message #149] Fri, 11 August 2023 17:44 Go to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher
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FOIA: is the County complying with FOIA or not?

I have been asking and no one seems willing or capable of answering, so I will make it clear!

1. Under what Authority does Bond County Illinois appoint the States Atty. to act as FOIA Officer for the entire County?
2. Why does Bond County Illinois Rquire a form to be submitted for FOIA?
3. Why are there no notices posted concerning FOIA, or lists of freely releasable documents?

FOIA STATUTE 10 Aug 2023 Under the Spoiler.

Toggle Spoiler
I think it's pretty clear they are not complying.
These forms were all downloaded, from the State or County website today.


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[Updated on: Fri, 11 August 2023 18:15]

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Re: FOIA: [message #152 is a reply to message #149] Sat, 12 August 2023 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher
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I addressed the FOIA issue Here, And yes I really do concider it an issue worthy of my attention.

Luckily for me I recieved an answer today, and it was quite sufficient to answer my simple question "I Wish to know what authority the States Attorney acts as FOIA officer for the County"

Enclosed was a copy of the minutes of the Board meeting from January 19, 2010 in which it was moved that the States Attorny would act as the Counties FOIA Officer.  Voted 5-0 by the board. Also included was a printout Ilcs sec 3.5 (which is one of the SNIPS included above in the spoiler).

I will ask for suitabley redacted copies in pdf format so they can be posted here.

However I disagree with this action and will Ask the Board to recend the action taken previously as I believe it was in error.

I would contend that section 3.5 is taken out of context with the remainder of the act, I believe section 2 defines Public Bodies, as used in the act, and I can read it no other way than as the act refers to each and every Public Body individualy not enmasse.

the remainder above stay the same.


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Re: FOIA: [message #155 is a reply to message #152] Sat, 12 August 2023 21:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher
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My reply to The States Atty. is as follows:Quote:
I have reciev'd your reply to My FOIA request of 27 July, 2023, and find it sufficient to answer my question.
It was what I expected it to be, and I still believe it is in error.

As I clarified more fully yesterday at: https://bondcountyil.net/index.php?t=msg&th=112&goto =149&rid=2#msg_149 (FOIA: is the County complying with FOIA or not?).


Before Contacting you I have contacted the (Public Access Counselor Office of the Attorney General Phone:
1-877-299-FOIA), Twice, and each time was told by both Atty's they could not answer that question. In both instance they wanted me to file a written complaint/report.

My FOIA request is the beginning of that process.

And You may Concider this as my appeal of your reply: Not because it was inaccurate but because it incompletely answers the underlying question at issue "is the County complying with FOIA or not?". And I note that you have not ventured an opinion on the issue, just documented facts which is as it should be.

But I do not need you to give me your legal opinion on the issue, However The Board will need to hear your opinion (if they haven't already asked).

It appears to me that the County Board on the 19th of January, 2010,: Did the right thing, but did it in the wrong way with the correct intent. And that act has continued as a pattern and or practice since.

You would probably call that MisFeasance, I would rather refer to it as an error in understanding that needs corrected.

On the 15th of Aug, 2023, I intend to ask the board to recend the action of 2010, No matter what their decision I intend to address the issue with the PAC, for clarification and to allow them to clarify their FAQ.

The only thing I would ask of you, now is that you forward to me Properly redacted pdf copies of your reply LTR, and of the minutes so I may post them for public discussion.

Your assistance in this matter is greatly Appreciated.


REDACTED ADDY.



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Re: FOIA: [message #178 is a reply to message #155] Mon, 14 August 2023 05:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher
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Bond is not the only county which use's States ATTY. for FOIA.

but I did find a nugget in Madison County see: https://bondcountyil.net/index.php?t=msg&th=66&goto= 170&rid=2#msg_170

Actually in my meandering I found a few other nuggets worthy of exploring.


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[Updated on: Mon, 14 August 2023 05:08]

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FOIA LTRs [message #213 is a reply to message #149] Wed, 16 August 2023 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher
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Well that was quick. I recieved the ltrs I requested above, in my Email this morning. they were in some sort of edge image/PDF format, which I don't have the tools to edit.

So I did the next best thing, cut an image off with my sword (snip tool) redacted my address, snipped it again and posted the imsge.

/index.php?t=getfile&id=63&private=0





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[Updated on: Wed, 16 August 2023 13:44]

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Re: FOIA LTRs [message #214 is a reply to message #213] Wed, 16 August 2023 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher
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This is the original responce, to my FOIA request:

/index.php?t=getfile&id=64&private=0
  • Attachment: snip2.PNG
    (Size: 63.43KB, Downloaded 275 times)


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[Updated on: Wed, 16 August 2023 13:46]

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Re: FOIA LTRs [message #215 is a reply to message #214] Wed, 16 August 2023 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher
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And this is the pertinent section of the board minites from 19 Jan 2010.

/index.php?t=getfile&id=65&private=0
  • Attachment: snip3.PNG
    (Size: 69.17KB, Downloaded 316 times)


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[Updated on: Wed, 16 August 2023 13:48]

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FOIA 2 [message #216 is a reply to message #215] Wed, 16 August 2023 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher
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And we are finished with this portion of this issue: now I will forward all of this to the PAC for the IL states Atty. for a judgement on the matter.

I accept that 19 Jan 2010 was only a few months after the FOIA was changed by the legislature in 2009, The duly elected Board voted unanimously to apoint the States Atty as FOIA, and that the states Atty. was 12 years younger with less knowledge and expierience, at that time.

All in all I see this as a cautinary tale which clearly shows how patterns of practice develop, and are maintained. Not with malice or intent but by inadvertant failures of due dilligence (usually).

In addressing this I remember the monthly fly report a young man of my aquaintence working in the Mess hall was bored so in addition to the reports he filed with head quarters each month he claimed to also submitting a ficticious memo monthly fly report after doing so for several months he stopped doing it.

It did'nt take long for the word from on high coming down demanding the monthly fly report, it was a health issue after all.

True or not it's a good story. It ended well, everyone had a good laugh and life went on albiet without the monthly fly report.

I fully expect that the PAC and the IL States Atty. will concur with My assessment and stop the practice. If not I will send it to our State rep and let them deal with it.

There are just too many things wrong with it real or projected. for me to ignore.







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[Updated on: Fri, 18 August 2023 10:52]

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Re: FOIA LTRs [message #219 is a reply to message #216] Thu, 17 August 2023 21:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher
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Earlier today, I Emailed the following to the PAC (Public Access Counselor) the following as an informal inquiry.
.

Quote:
(SNIP) "Under the Illinois law, the Public Access Counselor has several responsibilities, including:

Educational Materials

To provide educational materials to the public and to respond to informal inquiries.

Advisory Opinions

To issue advisory opinions on FOIA and OMA in response to requests by public bodies.

Mediate Disputes

To work to resolve or mediate disputes between members of the public and public bodies concerning FOIA requests and compliance with OMA." (SNIP)

Given the above: I have one simple question. what does (5 ILCS 140/2) (from Ch. 116, par. 202)
actually mean: I understand it as meaning Every public Body. As in each department has one or more  FOIA officers, and not just one FOIA officer handling all FOIA duties for all the Departments.

In particular can a Township, City, County, appoint a single FOIA Officer to Perform FOIA duties for every Department within or under the control of a Township, City, or County. And if so does that preclude any of the other requirements of the statute?

A clearly articulated answer would be much appreciated.

Thank you


REDACTED

(5 ILCS 140/2) (from Ch. 116, par. 202)
  Sec. 2. Definitions. As used in this Act:
  (a) "Public body" means all legislative, executive, administrative, or advisory bodies of the State, state universities and colleges, counties, townships, cities, villages, incorporated towns, school districts and all other municipal corporations, boards, bureaus, committees, or commissions of this State, any subsidiary bodies of any of the foregoing including but not limited to committees and subcommittees thereof, and a School Finance Authority created under Article 1E of the School Code. "Public body" does not include a child death review team or the Illinois Child Death Review Teams Executive Council established under the Child Death Review Team Act, or a regional youth advisory board or the Statewide Youth Advisory Board established under the Department of Children and Family Services Statewide Youth Advisory Board Act. (SNIP)


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Re: FOIA LTRs [message #239 is a reply to message #219] Mon, 21 August 2023 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Witch is currently offline  Witch
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I am now in my 3rd Email exchange with the PAC, so far we have reviewed 3 opinions of the Il. States Atty.
None of which seems applicable to the current situation.
So far this is the closest we have found:
Quote:

nothing in FOIA that requires a public body to segregate FOIA requests by department FOIA
requires each public body to designate at least one FOIA officer to respond to FOIA requests on
behalf of the public body. 5 ILCS 120/ 3. 5( a) Thus,.the Village' s. decision to
designate one employee to act as its FOIA officer is permissible under section 3. 5( a) of the Act:"

And We do not see as it applies in this case (apples and Oranges). One individual filing multiple requests in different departments all being addressed by single FOIA officer Rather than by several.
Re: FOIA LTRs [message #245 is a reply to message #239] Wed, 23 August 2023 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher
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After review ing  the whole thread, the situation feels like a "rope a dope". the most recent email says the following:

Quote:
This office has determinations concerning whether an entity is an “advisory” body or “subsidiary” body as contemplated by the definition of “public body” in section 2(a) of FOIA, but it is not clear to me that is what you are looking for.

Now thats some high end BS right there. And I cannot honestly think that came from a living breathing thinking person, in an honest responce to my queries!


At  this site You will find The Illinois Attourneys Page for FOIA and OMA https://foiapac.ilag.gov/

Quote:
OMA

It is the public policy of this State that public bodies exist to aid in the conduct of the people's business and that the people have a right to be informed as to the conduct of their business.

- Illinois Open Meetings Act, 5 ILCS 120/1.
We also have this on that page and this is where I addressed the PAC.

Quote:

Public Access Counselor (PAC)

Who is the Public Access Counselor?

The Public Access Counselor (PAC) is a part of the Office of the Attorney General. Working under the direction and supervision of the Attorney General and with a team of attorneys and professional staff, the Public Access Counselor's mission is to help people obtain public documents and access public meetings.

The contact information for the Public Access Counselor is:

Leah Bartelt, Public Access Counselor
Office of the Attorney General
500 S. 2nd Street
Springfield, Illinois 62701
Phone:
1-877-299-FOIA
(1-877-299-3642)
Fax: (217) 782-1396
E-mail: public.access@ilag.gov


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Re: FOIA LTRs [message #246 is a reply to message #245] Wed, 23 August 2023 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher
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I believe what we have here is a semi automated system.

I assumed I would be having a direct email discussion with a person representing the PAC of the States Atty. Preferably an attorney.

But What I am seeing here looks more like a low level employee choosing likely or possible answers off a list, does that help!

Even more than that of the wrong see below 3 attachments they have sent me, all three allowed me to read the redactions, in short they were not secure /wrong . which means in all likelihood any information I have sent will be exposed.

CORRECTION, the 1st allowed me to remove the redactions and read the names, after copy pasting a section to note pad, I assumed since the 2nd an 3rd removed the blocks they were legible as well, I did not scour the pages to verify!

At this point I have too say this all appears ridiculess, Now I have to go to a phone. the Last time I did this I get a machine, get a call back by someone claiming to be an atty. who tells me they can't answer the question submit it in writting at the email address. Wash Riinse Repeat.

Now remember this is all about FOIA take note of what is said and done.




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[Updated on: Thu, 31 August 2023 17:54]

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Re: FOIA LTRs [message #253 is a reply to message #246] Thu, 31 August 2023 17:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Witcher is currently offline  The Witcher
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I had the phone call with the PAC Friday evening the 25th Aug 23, they are a real person after all, and they did not seem exactly pleased.

My E-mails came from "Deputy Bureau Chief Public Access Bureau" and that is who was ID'd on the phone by name, they reiterated that I should submit a "Request for Review", that I should use an Email with my real/full name, and asked how I hacked the attachment.

My wife took note of the term hacked and spoke up, and that's where things went sideways and skewed, and we never did get things fully covered. At any rate after reassuring the wife that the States Atty's office was not going to be sending a Swat Team to our door, over a hacked attachment and I went about my week.

I have pondered over answering, not answering, in what detail, and should I be upset and how much. I still ain't decided. What I do know is that I feel as though I have placed a target on my back.


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Re: FOIA LTRs [message #267 is a reply to message #253] Wed, 13 September 2023 14:04 Go to previous message
Witch is currently offline  Witch
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They certainly are not listening or they know something I don't though I doubt that. Witch wrote on Wed, 06 September 2023 14:32
BOARD MEETING: Attended the Board meeting on the 5th of Sept. 2023:

SSDD:

3 separate times posted, work meeting at 6:00 vs 3:30, then again at 7 for regular meeting.

I did not know about a fire back in July.

They voted on FOIA Officer again, and again limited it. (at this time I don't believe any of them have read the FOIA, at least I have seen no indication they have)

Spoke with One member afterwards, and we briefly discussed the issue.
There appears to be an underlieing problem I don't quite grasp.
https://bondcountyil.net/index.php?t=msg&th=111&goto =261&rid=6#msg_261

[Updated on: Wed, 13 September 2023 14:10]

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